MH Oldschool

guys, i have a question, im guessing this applies to all games pre mh world but for the moment assume im talking about the ps2 games, and for that matter, specifically about mh2:

monsters stagger once a certain hp treshold has been reached. quite simple.

so if the head of a diablos has a stagger treshold of 100hp, and you break its head once with 1 stagger, then you need to do 100hp of damage to its head to break one of its horns. quite simple, right?

however, will the part break still happen if the monster is currently, say, toppled? if you staggered its legs and then procceeded to reach the stagger limit of, say, rathians wings, will the wings breaks even if she doesnt visually flinch?

also, how about part breaks that rely on element breaks, like dragon element for many of the elder dragon's horns? assume teostras head has a stagger limit of 100hp, and you reach that but without using dragon element (so youre overshooting, lets suppose an elementless weapon did way too much damage, staggered it once, and the stagger buildup has reset back to 0hp); does it mean that at this point, 1 single point of dragon element has to touch its head to make it stagger *again* and break even though the stagger buildup is at 0hp? or does the dragon element simply have to be present when the stagger treshold is reached? (so you can do 99 damage to its head, and make sure that a hit with dragon element is present in that final stretch)

what about tail breaks, similarly? those require cutting damage, lets once again assume that rathians tail has a stagger treshold of 100hp, does it mean i can do 99 damage to it with blunt damage and then make sure the last final bit is done with cutting damage, or does it have to be 100hp of cutting damage exclusively?
for that matter, if you need 100hp of cutting damage specifically, does that mean weapons like sword and shield and dual blades have it worse, because the amount of raw damage they do is minimal and rely mostly on element? so they'd build up the cutting damage incredibly slowly without the element contributing to it; or does element *do* contribute to tail cuts?

Oh boy, this is a large one, so let's break it on parts
(Disclaimer:
I only know about 4U and backwards but I had never touched the first gen aside of MHG and a bit of portable 1st)

pepesito1 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 3:01 am however, will the part break still happen if the monster is currently, say, toppled? if you staggered its legs and then procceeded to reach the stagger limit of, say, rathians wings, will the wings breaks even if she doesnt visually flinch?

Depends of the monster and the game, on Dos and MHG, monsters like the Rath pair, Yian Kut-Ku, gypceros and other bunch I was able to break their heads, wings and even severe the tail while topple, this was while playing multiplayer or even solo.
But there are some exceptions to the rule, some of the monsters on dos like the 4 elemental elders (Teo, Luna, Chammy and Kushala), blangonga, etc will not allow certain parts to break if they are toppled, like in the case of the elders their wings will never break even if you do the max amount of damage required if they are toppled, but that damage gets store, so you can end up in a situation where a single touch will break said parts while they are in a normal state.
I dont remember this being an issue on the psp games or in any other mh, but I cannot confirm for 3U, World and Rise.

also, how about part breaks that rely on element breaks, like dragon element for many of the elder dragon's horns? assume teostras head has a stagger limit of 100hp, and you reach that but without using dragon element (so youre overshooting, lets suppose an elementless weapon did way too much damage, staggered it once, and the stagger buildup has reset back to 0hp); does it mean that at this point, 1 single point of dragon element has to touch its head to make it stagger *again* and break even though the stagger buildup is at 0hp? or does the dragon element simply have to be present when the stagger treshold is reached? (so you can do 99 damage to its head, and make sure that a hit with dragon element is present in that final stretch)

In dos they work a little bit weird, but basically all damage contributes to breaking parts, raw and elemental (except for tails), until it reaches the maximum damage required for it, once that is done, then the game checks if you had done any elemental damage for parts that has an element requirement, if you had done at least 1 point of damage with element the part will break and the monster will stagger.

what about tail breaks, similarly? those require cutting damage, lets once again assume that rathians tail has a stagger treshold of 100hp, does it mean i can do 99 damage to it with blunt damage and then make sure the last final bit is done with cutting damage, or does it have to be 100hp of cutting damage exclusively?

Tail breaks 100% require to all damage be dealt with cutting weapons, using non-cutting items (like stones), weapons, or shotting non-slash bullets (tri, 4u and 3u) will never do any damage required for the cut to be successful.

for that matter, if you need 100hp of cutting damage specifically, does that mean weapons like sword and shield and dual blades have it worse, because the amount of raw damage they do is minimal and rely mostly on element? so they'd build up the cutting damage incredibly slowly without the element contributing to it; or does element *do* contribute to tail cuts?

Elemental damage matters for reaching the cutting threshold, but only if you use a cutting damage, so if you use an elemental sns, it will help with the cut, but if you use an elemental hammer then it will do nothing for the cut damage threshold

Alright, I have answers for all of your questions. Not all of this im 100% confident on but I will answer to the best of my knowledge.


For the topple/stagger animation if you reach the threshold while they are staggered, tripped, etc, the part will still break. However, in the context of something that isnt a partbreak, say, a leg trip, theres a mechanic i like to call "overwriting". Where lets say you staggered one leg, and it tripped
and the other leg is one hit away from being tripped. if you hit that leg while it is down, the stagger will be "overwritten" and will reset its "hp" due to stagger buildup existing during stagger/topple animations.

As for element breaks, the element needs to be present on the final hit of the stagger, i believe. This isnt one ive tested SUPER in depth, but from what i know its the best i can answer that question

And here is where things get complicated.

Elder Dragons are very very weird with their staggers, and in particular their partbreaks. Elder wing breaks in particular are just fucked. Due to elder parts having hp gates, their breaks will behave differently depending on the context. For the most part, elder heads need a minimum of two staggers with any amount of dragon to break.The stagger numbers are not fully tested, but context from other games is being used here. But if you, say, stagger it twice with said dragon, hit the head once then hit him below the hp cap on a different part, if ANY part of him staggers, the head will break, because the game checks to see if the hp cap and elemental check have been satisfied for the break, and lastly, it needs a stagger. It doesn't care where on the body staggers, just that it staggers so that it can provide a proper "excuse" to break the head whose conditions have been met already.

Wings are weird, but generally follow similar rules, and they can not be broken mid stagger animation (Like the head) whether it be a topple or normal stagger.
Wings require further testing, might do that at some point.

Elder tails, again, have hp gates, and a minimum amount of staggers required to reach the cut. I've noticed that when the hp cap is met, and lets say i toppled a Teostra if i go and hit the tail mid topple, the tail will stagger it out of the topple animation, and will be cut in just a few more hits.
I have no logical explanation of this, other than the game possibly putting priority on that said tail animation due to the hp gate and severing damage requirement being met.

And lastly, tail cuts. This is where it gets simple again :p

You can NOT use a blunt weapon to built up severing damage on the tail, then deliver the final blow with cutting damage. It has to all be cutting damage. I've tested, trust me. Otherwise you would just use a boomerang and a blunt weapon to get tail cuts.
As for element, element seems to contribute to tail cuts, so sns and duals dont have it worse off. This is certainly the case in dos, i can not vouch for other games as the way staggers work have changed throughout the series.

Staggers across the board are a tad bit complex, but I hope this cleared up some questions you had.