The best monster hunter game

Monster Hunter Generations Ultimate, known in Japan as Monster Hunter XX, is an action-role-playing game in the Monster Hunter series developed and published by Capcom. The game serves as an expanded edition of Monster Hunter Generations.
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monmonboy
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The best monster hunter game

Post by monmonboy »

I'm sure everyone here has enjoyed Jakob's Dos video. I have watched it several times since it first came out and if you haven't seen it I recommend it! Jakob's thesis is that there are two types of Monster Hunter games, games true to the original vision and the portable game design that took over the franchise. He puts MH1 and Dos in the original category, Tri somewhere between the two camps, and all the other games are portable.

I want to offer a different way of looking at Monster Hunter games. This is something that Jakob touches on several times in his videos but I don't think he gives it due weight. Monster Hunter games can be divided into those about "work" and those about "adventure" (or "not work").

Kanbanmarmume
The way I see it the split comes with the localisation of MH4U that fundamentally changes the character of the game. In fact I blame almost everything on the "guildmarm". She is not any kind of "marm". In the Japanese game she is a kanbanmusume which is, traditionally, a gendered job designed to bring in customers for the (family) business. She was changed from an appealing Japanese musume character whose quirkiness (like Tri's kanbanmusume) provides comic relief because it grates against the professionalism and charm expected of her job, into an infantile dope who calls Monster Hunters "doodle". This kind of behaviour is exacerbated by the "caravaneer" who is no leader and seems to be a senile loon in MH4U.

My point is the localisers wrote out work by writing out the names and the work focused characters for a western audience that, the positive reviews of MH4U would suggest, like childish nonsense in preference to work.

So I believe that MH1, Dos, Tri, PSP games and cross/double cross are all cut from the same cloth - they focus on work.
MH4(G) I put on the border because the story is silly and the seed of "adventure" as the reason for Monster Hunting is born.
MH4U is the tipping point and from here on (X/XX excepted) the devs are not making job simulators any more but are making childish adventure stories. All the weapons in World-onwards feel like plastic toys.

MHXX (not MHGU) is king
  • It is a technical WONDER on the 3DS. They took the MH4 engine and made a game that looks twice as good by upping the visual quality, removing the inconsistencies and enhancing the lighting. It is the best looking MH game and the best looking 3DS game without question.
  • The slower frame-rate makes this more of an RPG. I like smooth MH, like Tri, but a slightly slower frame-rate compliments the aesthetic of a slower paced game. Input queuing means gameplay works just fine.
  • The 3DS screen displays the colours properly. The Switch version of MHGU does not - it's oversaturated and looks awful.
  • MHXX has the best iteration of item management. Dos item management is a difficult and rewarding puzzle, but also frustrating. Lower numbers of items, lower pouch and box size. This is a "static" problem - the problem is always the same and the solutions, though interesting to work out for yourself, are also always the same. e.g. sell items you don't need, combine items to reduce the number of primary-resources, make weapons and armour to use up items.

    MHXX however has higher amounts of items, storage and money, which seems like it would break the gameplay. But if you don't buy anything from the trader except trap tools and combo books, and you use the barrel-airu to send resources back mid-hunt, you now have a better item-management game that forces you to plan and think dynamically during the hunt. Near base camp, send items now or try to get some more before sending? Complete subquest first so I can get support items at the same time as sending items back? Ditch my healing items to make space for more resources? Monster Hunter games have always had two reasons to go back to camp, bed and sub-quest deliveries/support-items. The barrel-airu gives you another reason that is organic and creates an item-management and planning game within the hunt, recreating the best parts of Dos item management in a better form.
  • No weather in XX which is absolutely unacceptable.
  • However all the fluff like hunter arts can be turned off or ignored.
  • It's a game about work.
  • Monster fights are dynamic and very exciting.
  • By bringing day and night maps back MHXX brings the essence of Dos' time system without the awkward design flaws. (Having seasons and day/night Dos is forced to have a smaller number of quests. Imagine - A higher number of quests in Dos would break most gamers who would give up at the thought of having to time/item manage so much just to have a shot at completing certain quests. e.g. "If I do A...B...C........Q.. then I can take that quest in 20 hours. If nothing goes wrong.")
I love all of the "work"-hunter games, but I argue that MHXX takes the content and experience of all of them and distils it into a pure hunting-is-work simulator. And as they knew it would be the last of that genre, they made it the best.
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Stephan/Gukst
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Re: The best monster hunter game

Post by Stephan/Gukst »

I don't know if saying that "everyone enjoyed" Jakob's video is the right terminology, that video has a shitton of issues which get critizised rightfully.

But I don't think the video is completely useless or invalid like many people say.
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Stephan/Gukst
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Re: The best monster hunter game

Post by Stephan/Gukst »

And now that I read through your whole post I'm pretty sure there is only a really small amount of people that would agree with your conclusion. I myself don't.
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monmonboy
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Re: The best monster hunter game

Post by monmonboy »

Hey, Stephan, thanks for the replies. So do you think the "portable boss-rush" or the "work-simulator" ideas, as ways to understand and evaluate the series, have any merit?

How to explain the relative crash of the Japanese monster hunter market? Rise was very popular with kids on Switches in Japan and this image does not show that data. But even with Rise it's clear Capcom switched their target market. No Japanese adults are playing monster hunter these days like they used to. I argue that Capcom localisers white-washed Japanese characters/culture to make it appealing to Americans and they won (and double cross was the pinnacle of the Japanese-MH design process). What do you think?
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Adam
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Re: The best monster hunter game

Post by Adam »

I don't think I would consider MHXX king as it has many problems imo.

The game suffers from awful quest pacing with a new monster throw at you pretty much every hunt with the exception of the constant repeat of the fated four as key quests. Then we get to village where the game doesn't explain that some quests are locked behind other quests so that you need to go to the 4 villages to do villager quests to unlock key quests.

Item management is non existent in MHXX I never once was worried about running low on any resource even without using the DLC I always had more than enough zenny and resources due to how strong the farm is.

The games difficulty is lopsided just like MH4U with it being ridiculously easy until end game HR or G3, Just like MH4 and 4G you don't get a gradual difficulty curve. Hunter Style's and Arts continue putting the players total power way higher than most of the monsters in MHX/XX.
MH1 - HR 20 | MHG - HR 30 | MH Dos - HR 200+ | MH Tri - HR 100+
MH3U - HR 70+ | MH 4U - HR 200+ | MH GU - HR 100+
MH World - HR 400+ | MH Rise - HR 850+
monmonboy
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Re: The best monster hunter game

Post by monmonboy »

Adam - I totally agree about items and hunter arts. But then again I don't think anybody should be buying or farming items anyway. All monster hunter games are better when the player engages with the world through hunter/gathering rather than menuing. Just hunt and gather and make everything yourself and double cross (and all other MH games) has a good item system. Hunter arts can be turned off and ignored.

Key quests. Any time I hear this phrase I know people are not playing monster hunter. They are only relevant for the developers and speed runners. I played monster hunter for years without knowing what this was and it's clear that anybody who wants to know what the key quests are in order to progress is not playing the game. The in-game hunter doesn't know or need to know what they are, neither do we. Because of the large number of quests in each rank in double cross this game does a better job than any other of disguising what the key quests are, which is good game design.

Awful quest pacing - not sure I understand your point here. There are too many monsters? -

Difficulty...
PS2 MH forces the player to adapt to the game.
From the PSP MH games on the games have progressively let the player customise the gameplay to their style.
So if you play double cross and use every tool available and you have experience with MH, yeah you break the game quickly. I did this too the first time I played it and I didn't like it.
But if you approach it with some care it's possible to recreate an aesthetic of the old era games that ends up giving more than they did.
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Lutyrannus
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Re: The best monster hunter game

Post by Lutyrannus »

MHXX is absolutely not the same type of MH game that Dos is. Especially not from a gameplay perspective. I think that anyone who has played Dos online will see why. Completely different gameplay loops between the two games. You're absolutely free to call it your favorite MH, but I think that to talk about it as the same subgenre of action game as MH2 is really strange to me.
Welcome to the world of Monster Hunter. Lunae ~ Loremaster. Blademaster. Grandmaster.
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